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The incredibly gay version of Good Omens. Lookit the precious Crowley and Aziraphale! They're so, so gay.
Nick Brendon and Seth Green fake-making out on Videos That Don't Suck. It's even more adorable as it's totally unscripted. SO cute.
The thing about Supernatural that I'm thingking about more and more lately, mostly through talking to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
truffle_shuffle and sargraf's Brotherly Manlove posts (which, by the way, are the Best Posts Ever) is that the writers haven't got a plan at all. It seems like they're completely making it up as they go along, and not paying attention to what they've done in the past. They keep rewriting their own lore and reimagining their own characters. The only character they seem to have a really good grasp of from episode to episode is Sam. I can't help wondering how much of the excellent characterisation in the show is down to the fantastic casting more than the mediocre writing.
I have to admit, the writers are generally good with the relationship between the boys. They usually handle the emotional stuff, or lack thereof, pretty well. Every so often, though, they'll throw in a line that is something that the audience has already figured out for themselves, and that drives me bonkers. Sometimes it's done really well - Dean's line in the finale about being scared of what he'd be prepared to do for his father or Some, for instance, is delivered with such power that it actually seems like it's a revelation for him, even though we've known about it for a while - but at other times it's just irritating, because the actors are perfectly capable of getting those sentiments across without the clunky dialogue. This is particularly grating in Shadow, one of my favourite episodes, which is so great except for that one scene where Sam and Dean talk about what they want after. There are so many places where they could cut it off, do the talking with hints and suggestions, but no, it's all right there. "Why do you think I came and got you at Stanford?" "I'd do anything for you." "I want things to be the way they were before." "You're gonna have to let me go my own way." It's all stuff we know and they know. I'm not saying this scene wasn't acted incredibly well, because it was, but the dialogue is terrible and by-the-numbers and resolves nothing, even though its honesty should at least get them somewhere. It's frustrating. Worst of all, they do it to John in the final episodes, too, which just doesn't seem right. Especially not after he says so much with so few words in Shadow.
The writers also have a terrible tendency to write themselves into corners. I'm going to use another favourite episode as an example, Home, mostly because I know my favourites better than others. The problem here is Missouri. Wonderful actress, wonderful character, one major issue: her relationship with Dean. My theory is that the writers have either imagined a history between those two characters that just isn't there, or that they didn't really know where they were going with Dean or how well Jensen can portray angst and pain, because he was hurting as much as Sam in this episode and yet Missouri pretty much doesn't have a kind word to spare for him the whole time. It's not just the affectionate banter, she's almost cruel to him, saying he's not the sharpest tool in the shed and making fun of his EMF thingie even though he's smart and very good at his job. Maybe I just like Dean too much, but it totally colours my perception of her character.
They write themselves into a corner in Route 66, too, with the sudden invention of Winchester Rule #1: Do what we do and shut up about it. I'm saying whatsargraf said, which makes me feel kind of stupid but I did think it as well. This rule was never before cited. Dean has always made his feelings on this matter perfectly clear, right from the start - he was surprised Jess didn't know about Sam's past, he told Sam to tell his friends about himself, and later in Provenance neither he nor Sam has any qualms telling Sarah about it all even though they know she likes Sam. Sam doesn't bring up the Brand New Rule when explaining why he never told Jess about himself - it's always been obvious that he chose not to tell her because he wants normalcy and is ashamed of that aspect of his life. Now, suddenly, Dean is dumped for opening up to a girl and the writers have to put him in the wrong by creating a brand new rule. Do they just hate Dean or something? It's infuriating.
There's contradictions in the way they handle John as well. Sam says he's not that bad a drinker in Nightmare but in other episodes references John's drinking. He's neglectful, he's not neglectful. His supposed 'never looking at [Dean] the same way again' after the Something Wicked flashback incident also seems out of character, unless we are to take it that that's only Dean's perception of how things went down. And what about him wanting his boys to have a normal life? That came out of nowhere for me, especially the rather weak 'I want Dean to have a home.' Dean was 26 in the first episode, dude, give up the dream. He's never shown any interest in actually giving them a normal life since they were very young. No wonder the fan perceptions of John are so widely different, the show can't decide on what they want to do with him. Granted, Dean and Sam have very different understandings of who their father is, but the writers at least should have a fixed idea, instead of changing him from episode to episode.
The writers seem to have settled on a fairly solid idea of Dean now, finally, after spending at least half the season writing him as an egotistical boor while Jensen played him so gracefully. I always feel as though Dean makes up for his insecurities by overemphasising what he knows - women, his job, the hunt, humour. How anyone can say he's an idiot when he's inventive, extraordinarily physically agile, and creates characters as well as he does is beyond me. I can't help but feel that it's something Jensen brought to the role, rather than something that was written for it - a feeling that was exacerbated when I read the original pilot script.
The lack of subtlety continues with the music, which takes callous to a whole new level. I'm Burning For You. Fire of Unknown Origin. Don't Fear the Reaper. Can't Find My Way Home. Carry On My Wayward Son, which is not so much callous as perfect but blatantly obvious. And, finally, Bad Moon Rising, which I've been listening to in the car and I'm sure was just played there to tease the fans.
Hope you've got your things together/Hope you are quite prepared to die
I swear, it plays like a fanmix, not a soundtrack.
Thank god for the pretty of the show is all I can say.
That ended up being a lot longer than I thought it would be, and very negative. I suppose it's just that I love the show so much and I can't help wanting it to be better than it is. I'm going to do my usual daily post separately now.
Green Queen
Nick Brendon and Seth Green fake-making out on Videos That Don't Suck. It's even more adorable as it's totally unscripted. SO cute.
The thing about Supernatural that I'm thingking about more and more lately, mostly through talking to
truffle_shuffle and sargraf's Brotherly Manlove posts (which, by the way, are the Best Posts Ever) is that the writers haven't got a plan at all. It seems like they're completely making it up as they go along, and not paying attention to what they've done in the past. They keep rewriting their own lore and reimagining their own characters. The only character they seem to have a really good grasp of from episode to episode is Sam. I can't help wondering how much of the excellent characterisation in the show is down to the fantastic casting more than the mediocre writing.I have to admit, the writers are generally good with the relationship between the boys. They usually handle the emotional stuff, or lack thereof, pretty well. Every so often, though, they'll throw in a line that is something that the audience has already figured out for themselves, and that drives me bonkers. Sometimes it's done really well - Dean's line in the finale about being scared of what he'd be prepared to do for his father or Some, for instance, is delivered with such power that it actually seems like it's a revelation for him, even though we've known about it for a while - but at other times it's just irritating, because the actors are perfectly capable of getting those sentiments across without the clunky dialogue. This is particularly grating in Shadow, one of my favourite episodes, which is so great except for that one scene where Sam and Dean talk about what they want after. There are so many places where they could cut it off, do the talking with hints and suggestions, but no, it's all right there. "Why do you think I came and got you at Stanford?" "I'd do anything for you." "I want things to be the way they were before." "You're gonna have to let me go my own way." It's all stuff we know and they know. I'm not saying this scene wasn't acted incredibly well, because it was, but the dialogue is terrible and by-the-numbers and resolves nothing, even though its honesty should at least get them somewhere. It's frustrating. Worst of all, they do it to John in the final episodes, too, which just doesn't seem right. Especially not after he says so much with so few words in Shadow.
The writers also have a terrible tendency to write themselves into corners. I'm going to use another favourite episode as an example, Home, mostly because I know my favourites better than others. The problem here is Missouri. Wonderful actress, wonderful character, one major issue: her relationship with Dean. My theory is that the writers have either imagined a history between those two characters that just isn't there, or that they didn't really know where they were going with Dean or how well Jensen can portray angst and pain, because he was hurting as much as Sam in this episode and yet Missouri pretty much doesn't have a kind word to spare for him the whole time. It's not just the affectionate banter, she's almost cruel to him, saying he's not the sharpest tool in the shed and making fun of his EMF thingie even though he's smart and very good at his job. Maybe I just like Dean too much, but it totally colours my perception of her character.
They write themselves into a corner in Route 66, too, with the sudden invention of Winchester Rule #1: Do what we do and shut up about it. I'm saying what
sargraf said, which makes me feel kind of stupid but I did think it as well. This rule was never before cited. Dean has always made his feelings on this matter perfectly clear, right from the start - he was surprised Jess didn't know about Sam's past, he told Sam to tell his friends about himself, and later in Provenance neither he nor Sam has any qualms telling Sarah about it all even though they know she likes Sam. Sam doesn't bring up the Brand New Rule when explaining why he never told Jess about himself - it's always been obvious that he chose not to tell her because he wants normalcy and is ashamed of that aspect of his life. Now, suddenly, Dean is dumped for opening up to a girl and the writers have to put him in the wrong by creating a brand new rule. Do they just hate Dean or something? It's infuriating.There's contradictions in the way they handle John as well. Sam says he's not that bad a drinker in Nightmare but in other episodes references John's drinking. He's neglectful, he's not neglectful. His supposed 'never looking at [Dean] the same way again' after the Something Wicked flashback incident also seems out of character, unless we are to take it that that's only Dean's perception of how things went down. And what about him wanting his boys to have a normal life? That came out of nowhere for me, especially the rather weak 'I want Dean to have a home.' Dean was 26 in the first episode, dude, give up the dream. He's never shown any interest in actually giving them a normal life since they were very young. No wonder the fan perceptions of John are so widely different, the show can't decide on what they want to do with him. Granted, Dean and Sam have very different understandings of who their father is, but the writers at least should have a fixed idea, instead of changing him from episode to episode.
The writers seem to have settled on a fairly solid idea of Dean now, finally, after spending at least half the season writing him as an egotistical boor while Jensen played him so gracefully. I always feel as though Dean makes up for his insecurities by overemphasising what he knows - women, his job, the hunt, humour. How anyone can say he's an idiot when he's inventive, extraordinarily physically agile, and creates characters as well as he does is beyond me. I can't help but feel that it's something Jensen brought to the role, rather than something that was written for it - a feeling that was exacerbated when I read the original pilot script.
The lack of subtlety continues with the music, which takes callous to a whole new level. I'm Burning For You. Fire of Unknown Origin. Don't Fear the Reaper. Can't Find My Way Home. Carry On My Wayward Son, which is not so much callous as perfect but blatantly obvious. And, finally, Bad Moon Rising, which I've been listening to in the car and I'm sure was just played there to tease the fans.
Hope you've got your things together/Hope you are quite prepared to die
I swear, it plays like a fanmix, not a soundtrack.
Thank god for the pretty of the show is all I can say.
That ended up being a lot longer than I thought it would be, and very negative. I suppose it's just that I love the show so much and I can't help wanting it to be better than it is. I'm going to do my usual daily post separately now.
Green Queen
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The acting really carries the show right now. The characterizations by the writers are great and the arcs show such potential, and that will carry it until the writers can settle in, I hope.
I hate to cliche things up, but too many cooks spoil the broth, and I seem to remember quite a few writers in the credits. Perhaps they should settle in with just the best of what they have.
I know Rich Hatem has left the show (He wrote Phantom Traveller, among a few others), and that is sad, because if anyone could write those boys, Rich could. He had enough practise on Miracles.
As for the music? Damn, when I saw the previously set to "Carry on My Wayward Son" I not only drew in a sharp breath that did not let out until the end, I also gained a new appreciation for that song. It was perfect.
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I didn't know about all the writers, but I knew about Hatem. At least they'll have a new network at the CW where things might change a little.
LOL the music can either be just perfect or a little bit too much sometimes...
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Your analysis of the show makes me sad, but, I have to admit that you're right. It's a little painful and hard to get used to loving a show where the writers aren't GENIUSES (I am totally spoiled by Joss & co, and the writers of Veronica Mars) because then you really have to take everything that's said with a grain of salt, and it's hard to really get in there and analyze the WORDS, because there's always the risk of taking something too seriously that was just a throwaway line or plain inconsistent. All I can say is thank god for our boys, because the show would be nothing without them.
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Yeah, we've been spoilt. Rob Thomas and Joss Whedon are geniuses of the TV world and now we all have to try to get used to the lesser writers again, which isn't fair, really. That's why I love
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But, like I said, I need to watch the season again to have a more detailed analysis.
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Let's face it. Rob Thomas and Joss Whedon are writing gods in a mediocre world.
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Thats one of the only points I totally disagree with you, but only because I think he actually DOES want them to have a normal life. AFTER they killed the demon that murdered Mary. *shrug*
Other than that, yeah, but the acting is goooood and they're preeettyyyy and then angst so well *G*
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I don't really have much to add to this, but I wanted to say thank you for the kind words about the manlove posts, and also that I agree with so much of what you've written. (John's looking at Dean "different" after the Shtriga thing, I don't see as out of character for John, only out of character for the John we met in Shadow. Actually, that episode feels OOC to me, for everyone but Sam, and I have this feeling when I watch it, "Just what did that accomplish?" WORD about John's weak "I want Dean to have a home," though. That was lame, JDM failed to deliver it, and John is oversimplifying Dean's issues just a tad.)
You're probably dead right, you know? The writers don't have a clue who their characters are, what motivates them. I think Kripke is probably writing his characters around the plot, rather than vice versa, and that can be just fine in an event story (or even excellent, like LotR). But this "event" is only being stretched out for Kripke's apparent lack of confidence in it. It seems like he's trying to build this Demon arc bigger and badder because he's afraid he'll be lost once it's tied up. Episodes like Home, Shadow and Salvation mostly jog in place; they are big and epic and sweep us off our feet, but where do they go?
What I really appreciate about JP and JA is that they are treating SPN as a character story, not a cool plotty show about some random outlaw guys or whatnot. They each feel for their character and for each other's character, and you can see that on screen. I think JA has done a minor miracle with Dean. Did you read the original script for the pilot? It will depress you, but if you haven't, I might recommend it as highly illuminating material, re: how Kripke conceived the characters.
BTW, I'd like to friend you, if that's okay? I'm enjoying our talks, and your LJ reminds me of how much I loved Dom in LotR. :)
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That's a good way of putting it, that they're writing the characters around the plot and letting it get away from them. That's why we need writers like Joss who know what they want from the get-go. The demon mythology is another thing that seems to be changing and has a lot of inconsistencies. 'They got in the way' doesn't seem like much of an explanation for why Mary and Jess were both killed on the same date like that.
Yeah, Jared and Jensen really put their all into it. I have read the original pilot script and it was all very 'WTF?!' Dean was Jayne. It seems almost unbelievable that a character as rich and sympathetic and wonderful as the Dean Winchester we know and love could have come from THAT concept. And Sam was a completely contradictory Mary Sue-style character. Crazy.
I don't mind at all! I will friend you back. Everybody should love Dom. How could you not? LOL.